Sunday, 7 September 2014

Gwydion, a British/Belgic form of Woden

Jacob Grimm in Teutonic Mythology Volume I makes a comparison between Woden and the British deity Gwydion in his footnotes on page 150, Chapter VII (Wuotan, Wodan [Odinn]:

"In the Old British mythology there appears a Gwydion ab Don, G. son of Don, whom Davies (Celtic Researches pp. 168, 174. Brit.myth.p 118,204,263-4,353,429.504,541) identifies with Hermes; he invented writing, practised magic, and built the rainbow; the milky way was named caer Gwydion, G.'s castle (Owen, sub v.). The British antiquaries say nothing of Woden, yet Gwydion seems near of kin to the above Gwodan=Wodan. So the Irish name for dies Mercurii, dia Geden, whether modelled on the Engl. Wednesday or not, leads us to the form Goden, Gwoden (see Suppl.)"

It is interesting that according to Paul the Deacon (8th century CE) amongst the East Germanic tribes of the Vandals and Langobards Wodan was referred to as Godan or Guodan. Indeed the subsitution of the 'w' for a 'g' is to be found in other places in the Germanic world. Grimm refers to places which were sacred to Wodan which contain the initial letter 'g' such as Godesberg, near Bonn which in the Middle Ages was called Gudensberg. Indeed the older name of the city was Wodenesberg. Near the holy oak at Hesse there was a Wuodenesberg which has variously been called Vdenesberg and Gudensberg. There is also a Gudensberg near Erkshausen in Rotenburg and likewise a Gudensberg near Oberelsungen and Zierenberg. The Latin spelling would be Vodinberg. There is also a city referred to in mediaeval documents called Gotansberg. So there certainly seems to be a precendent in the Germanic world for connecting Wodan with Godan.

Returning to the subject of Gwydion being Woden Charles Squire in The Mythology of the British Islands states:

"It was a belief common to the Aryan races that wisdom as well as wealth came originally from the underworld; and we find Math represented in the Mabinogi bearing his name as handing on his magical lore to his nephew and pupil Gwydion, who there is good reason to believe was the same divine personage whom the Teutonic tribes worshipped as 'Woden' and 'Odin'. Thus equipped Gwydion son of Don became the druid of the gods, the 'master of illusion and phantasy', and not only that but the teacher of all that is useful and good, the friend and helper of mankind, and the perpetual fighter against niggardly underworld powers for the good gifts which they refused to allow out of their keeping."

We already have seen from earlier articles that Woden/Loki equate with the Celtic Lugos/Lugh/Lleu and yet the Mabinogi of Math makes it clear that Gwydion fathered Lleu through His sister Arianrod (Aryan Wheel). He is thus His own father just as Widar is both the son of Woden and Woden reborn. I do recommend Squire's work which incidentally was also studied by Savitri Devi no less!

Robert Graves in his The White Goddess states:

"Professor Sir John Rhys takes Gwydion for a mixed Teuton-Celt deity and equates him with Woden...." (page 51)

Also: "That the Belgae invaded Britain in 400 BC, and that their god was the [Celto-Teutonic] Gwydion [alias Woden, or Odin] and that the ash [Ygdrasill] was sacred to him." (Appendix A Two Letters to the Press)

It is interesting that Graves should identify the Belgae who invaded Britain as a Teutonic tribe. This is something which I have discussed in a earlier post concerning the colonisation of Britain by Germanic peoples much earlier than the accepted date of 449 CE. See: http://celto-germanic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/ancient-presence-of-germanic-peoples-in.html

See also: http://celto-germanic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/the-belgae-and-ancient-germanic.html


Steed EOW said...

Interesting that you touch upon this topic as I've been looking into the origins and nature of the Brythons (Welsh) lately myself. As you may know, some Wodenists suspect the Welsh of having close genetic or cultural links with the ancient Jews (due to the seeming similarity of the Welsh and Hebrew languages and the Druidic priest class), and therefore consider them a possible and fundamental enemy of the English.

I'm unsure where I stand on that but my instinct tells me that this is not so, or else that the Welsh might be related to the original Aryan Israelites (the 'British Israelite' theory). Either way the Welsh/Brythons strike me as an Aryan Celtic people for reasons such as those explained in your article here.

The Saxon Chronicles clearly states the Welsh as having come to Albion from Armenia, which is very interesting. Some theorise that the Brythons' own name for themselves - 'Cymri' - stems from 'Cimmerian'.

On another note, the 'ever reliable' Wikipedia has this to say about the Belgae: "Without explaining the details, Caesar and other classical authors described them both as Gauls, but also as distinct from "Celtic" Gauls, and as having Germanic ancestry."

It can be a pertinent topic, given that the English likely carry a small amount of Brythonic blood - particularly in the West - and some Belgian blood in places too.

runebinder said...

Haelsa! I believe that the Lombardic tribes referred to Odin as 'Godan' which is very similar - also there's a Celtic god 'Nodens', which may be another aspect?

Wotans Krieger said...

Thanks Steed.
I don't subscribe to the theory that the Cymri are linked in anyway to Jews or Hebrews. There is no evidence to support the link other than some tenuous etymology.Genetic testing in the British Isles indicates that the predominant Y chromosone haplotype is R1b, which I share myself, a haplotype which is common to both the Germanic and Celtic peoples. In my case it is inherited from the Cymri via my father's fathers who carry a Cymric line from Wales.There is no genetic evidence for semitic colonisation in the British Isles.Most Indo-Europeans have a priestly class so I cannot get hung up about Druids being a quasi-semtic priesthood!We can read too much into things at times!

Wotans Krieger said...

Haelsa Runebinder!

Yes Godan is most certainly an East Germanic term for Wodan and it is the connecting link between Woden and Gwydion here in Britain.
The Belgae who Caesar indicates were a Germanic people (or at least Celto-Germanic) may have introduced the cult of Woden in the 5th century BCE if it was not here even earlier than that.
Nuada/Nodens/Nudd is the Celtic equivalent of our old Sky Father Tiwaz/Tiw/Tyr/Tig.

Steed EOW said...

I tend to agree WK. I'm even starting to think there may be a little too much importance placed on the difference between 'Germanic' and 'Celtic' - particularly when we consider that, in terms of blood, Iceland is nearly half 'Celtic'. And when the written accounts of the North-Western tribes show a certain ambuigity with regards to which tribes were Germanic and which 'Celtic' (Gaelic) it all becomes a bit hazy. My maternal side is Dutch, mostly from the South-Netherlands (south of the Rhine) and most maps show this as the hazy intermediate area between Germania and the Gaulish tribes (though I do believe it is predominantly Germanic, with the Gaelic tribes pushed further south and west).

You often point out the similarities between the Germanic, Gaelic, Slavic, Brythonic and Finno-Ugric Gods and mythologies, which is welcome - it's good to know that ethnic 'impurity' does not mean we betray some of our ancestors' ways in favour of others - their ways were essentially the same as one another.

Wotans Krieger said...

Excellent comment Steed!
I have come to the same conclusions and I agree with your observation regarding Iceland. It is certainly a mixed Celto-Germanic gene pool although their language is pure Norse, so different from modern Swedish, Norwegian and Danish.
Chamberlain (Foundations of the Nineteenth Century) was of the opinion that a Celto-Germanic or Germano-Slavic mix was indeed highly desireable due to the amalgamation of inherent qualities.He called all these peoples Teutons rather than Aryans. There is a line of argument that the Slavs for instance are actually the descendants of the lost East Germanic tribes.
I am particularly interested in Netherlandic mythology but the material available in English is very restricted. My knowledge of Dutch is much more limited so I rely on German scources. Many years ago when speaking Dutch in Belgium I was answered in German. My Dutch tutor often criticised my German pronounciation of Dutch!
It is my intention to retire early next year so that I can devote my efforts full time to our cause and I will translate important and obscure works from German into English, maybe publish a book!

Steed EOW said...

That'd be most useful. I'm not sure I'll ever get around to learning German myself (or Dutch for that matter - I only know a few words). But I should make more of an effort to uncover specifically Dutch mythology.

My general view on the mixing of Germanic and Celtic or Slavic tribes is: I trust in the judgment of our pre-Christian forefathers, and if they (be they the Saxons and Jutes who may have mixed with a minority of Brythons, such as Hengist's daughter Rowena marrying Vortigern; the Heathen Icelanders who wed Celtic brides; the Frisians who wed Gaelic brides or the Vandals who married Slavs) thought nothing fundamental was lost in this act, then I don't either. Haplotype maps show all of Europe to be varied to a degree.

That said - Germanic culture can only be carried forth by predominantly Germanic blood, British by British, Slavic by Slavic etc. There's no sense in Europa dropping its internal borders and intentionally intermingling, in my opinion.

The inter-tribal mixing today, of the post-Judeo-Christian era, is a different matter. It is not based upon pagan wisdom and understanding of blood and soil, but on an unwitting nihilism.

Wotans Krieger said...

Steed, there are no internal borders in Europe. Worry instead about the external borders between Africa and Asia. The Englisc flag wavers on the forum you post on (as I did once) need to be more concerned with their potentially coffee coloured descendants than bitching about the Welsh and Scots!
Nero is indeed fiddling whilst Rome burns! The English people face oblivion within 100 years if not sooner unless they wake up but too little is happening too late. The majority of them are materialists with no concern at all for matters of race so long as they can have their fatty foreign convenience foods. I am sorry to say this but this is the penalty that Karma demands for their betrayal of their own blood and their opposition to Hitler who promised all Germanic people a glorious future. The trouble is that they through the victory secured for them by the USA and USSR they then commenced their own biological obliteration via Windrush in the 1950s. There is no easy or peaceful solution to this. Either this country will go the way of Brazil or it will face the turmoil of the Balkans.
Nations are dead. What matters now is race for only race can be scientifically determined. Nations come and go and this one is going! The English desire for self-destruction has also infected the continent with certain countries such as France and the Netherlands going the same way as England. Maybe Hitler had a prophetic vision when He said that the future belongs to the stronger people in the east?

SerpentSlayer said...

I'll never feel ashamed of my Celtic blood, but I do think that concerns besides those you have anticipated may have weighed on the minds of our male ancestors during the folk wandering.
Towards the later end, during the wars against christian influence, I can only imagine turmoil throughout Europe. Much like Europe today where all sense of racial kinship is waning. Perhaps those who went across the sea to settle and take British and Irish wives no longer cared a great deal about preserving their blood, instead seeing much as we do now that any white bride is desirable over the spiritual (and now racial) oblivion.
I'm just speculating but of the recorded history we have of northern europe, all of it has been at times of varying turmoil.
I think Europe had began to fragment long before Rome, in the south and beyond already Aryan kind lived in cities and abandoned the old way of living. I think Rome was the final death knell for the old world. Aryans who have betrayed their blood slaying those who hadn't. At first the weakling spread and forced the Celts, Germans and Slavs to occupy less space and take up farming themselves, before the Romans began a war of extermination. From then on I would imagine it seemed like the world was ending, much as it does now.
I can only wonder whether our age of heroes will be our victory and rebirth or the death throes of the Aryan race. My heart tells me we will survive.

Steed EOW said...

Maybe it is Karma, but I still maintain that Britain's part in the World Wars was a result of heavy and directed misinformation rather than an inherent incapacity to take the right side. We were chosen to play the part we played. Any nation would have succumbed to that level of brainwashing and control. That said, I'm not excusing England. There may well be something to atone for.

Same goes for our leading the way in self-destruction. Rather than taking the view that our weakness has put us first in line, I take the view that we were targetted to be first in line with centuries-long conditioning due to our historically held values and strength. Same goes for Sweden, who are possibly further along than we are.

Either way - whether England is dying because of an inherent weakness in the people, or because of a prolonged psycho-spiritual attack - we are dying and that I do agree with. I've mentioned elsewhere recently that I see new unions being formed based on ideology and religion as well as blood, rather than the increasingly meaningless civil unions currently in place. I have more in common with Heathens in Germania, Scandinavia and the Celtic lands than I do anyone who lives on my street in England.

I don't take the 'White Nationalist' view that we should welcome millions of Eastern or Southern Europeans to our land, but the ones who happen to have settled here and are on our side are fine with me. There are different values and mindsets within the various European nations though - I've travelled Europe and witnessed that myself.

We both agree though that England in its present form won't exist in 100 years time. We adapt, fight or die. Each options leads to significant change.

Perhaps better to continue this discussion privately? Also, I'm no longer a member of the ASF forum.

Adam Goodfellow said...

It's worth pointing out that no country 'in it's present form' will exist in 100 years, just as any country now is different from those a hundred years ago.

I'm deeply disturbed that anyone claiming the same faith as me is regretting fighting Hitler, and worried that most posting here seem to think 'racial purity' is a worthwhile concept. There has never been such a thing, only populations that are temporarily isolated from others.

If there is something you want to preserve about English culture, do this by helping immigrants to participate, not by shunning those whose skin is a different colour to yours.

Wotans Krieger said...

"Claiming the same faith"? What "faith"? I don't even know you and neither am I interested in your pc views on Hitler and race.Clearly this is not a blog you should be reading my good fellow. There is nothing "temporary" about the Germanic and other Aryan peoples. We have been in existence for millenia. A man that does not "care" for his genes will reap misfortune upon his unlucky and unhappy descendants. Now run along and help your dear immigrants to "participate" whatever that may mean!